Fwd: Potter Quality: HMS vs International Marine...

GSTahoe@aol.com
Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:14:34 EST


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West Wight Potter Website at URL
http://www.lesbois.com/wwpotter/
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Greg--

I will begin with a few of the improvements that International Marine has made
to the P-15 (I cannot speak for the 19, as I sail a 15) over the years. I
will leave it to others to elaborate.

First of all, as you mentioned in your post, the hardware has been upgraded
and improved.

Another obvious improvement is in the finish and care taken in the fiberglass.
The glass work is much more even and obviously more carefully laid. When I
bought my Potter, those beautiful colored hulls were not available. The
chainplates and other stress points have been improved. The backing plates in
my boat were what looks like left over trimmings of fiberglass that where just
put up behind the hardware. When I saw a newer P-15 from the factory at our
first Tahoe sail a couple of years ago I immediately noticed the edges of all
the glass work around the hatch, passage way, etc had a nice plastic finishing
trim on them, mine had sharp, unfinished fiberglass that not only looked bad,
but could cut you if you hit it right. When I received my Potter, all the
woodwork was unfinished. I had to do quite a bit of varnishing to protect the
wood. The table/hatch (it's not called a hatch, but at the moment I can't
remember what you call it, but it's the wood thing that keeps you, I mean your
boat, from filling with water in a rainstorm) was unfinished marine plywood,
not even sanded. The hinges were put on with rivets, which of course pulled
out of the plywood within days. I had to redo that.

Again, as you mentioned, the transom was rather weak. I had that done
properly when I removed the old fiberglass motor mount and put on a heavier
mount. When I would lay in the berth and look around, I could see unfinished
edges and lack of care everywhere. If silicone caulking was used, such as in
the windows, it was dripping everywhere.

When I purchased my boat, I picked it up from HMS marine in So. Cal, and I
watched the building of the P-15's. Most of the workers spoke little, if any,
English and seemed to take absolutely no pride in their work. That attitude
seemed to be held by the man who sold me the boat as well. My trailer was
missing lug nuts and the lights didn't work properly when I got it. As a side
note, reflecting their pride, when I picked up my new boat it had been sitting
in the yard with the hatch open during a terrible period of rain in LA The
first thing I had to do was get a bailer and sponge and clean out several
inches of water. This was even before I left the yard and headed back up to
Tahoe. It has never gotten wet inside again.

Today, with International Marine, you will see none of that. Their pride is
obvious. Of course, as with any boat, poop happens. Sometimes they may ship
a boat and forget to include a sail or a line, something may be a little out
of adjustment, but let's remember, these boats are built to be as economical
as possible. International Marine seems to stand behind the Potter 110
percent. They have even helped me upgrade the stuff done (or not done) by
their predecessor. In many cases, years after I purchased the boat.

In summary, the older Potters are a fine craft, but be prepared to do a little
work. Also, with the pre-IM boats, be prepared to notice sloppy stuff where
you can't help but say, "I can't believe they did that." There is nothing I
have encountered that is not repairable or upgradeable and I am hardly a
master craftsman. A little sanding, varnishing and elbow grease can do
wonders. The only job I paid to have done that I was afraid to attempt myself
was the replacement of the motor mount along with the reinforcement of the
transom.

I still kind of drool at the newer Potters. Anyone want to trade?

Another side note, while on the subject of International Marine: I don't
understand why Potter owner's don't check with IM when they want or need after
market items. I will see people search everywhere for a bimini, rails or
sails and never contact IM. I do not understand that. I bought a bimini from
them that was made to fit the boat. It is of the finest quality and looks
sharp. I bought my Honda from IM for a couple of hundred less that I could
have bought one from a local Honda dealer. Same thing with the motor mount.
Etc, etc. No, I do not have any stock in IM, other than being a Potter owner,
but I certainly respect the way they do business. When you buy an item from
IM you know it was made for the Potter.

I hope I've helped. I'm sure others will have other stuff to contribute.
You've probably begun a whole new thread.

Geoff
P-15 Lollipop
N. Lake Tahoe, NV

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Message-ID: <006d01be0748$b3093f40$1100000a@greg>
From: "Gregory S. DeLozier" <delozier@aristar.com>
To: <wwpotter@tscnet.com>
Subject: Potter Quality: HMS vs International Marine...
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:40:42 -0500
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West Wight Potter Website at URL
http://www.lesbois.com/wwpotter/
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Hi,

As someone contemplating buying a Potter, I have some
concerns and questions about the WWP-15 that I'd like to
discuss, if it's OK. I'd appreciate any responses...

To start with, I read this from Geoff...

>Knowing what I know now about HMS marine makes it even chancier. The
>improvements made by International Marine are quite impressive.

Can someone tell me (or point me to a list of) the improvements made
by International Marine?

Specifically, I have been a sailor for, oh, 25 years or so, and I currentl=
y
have a Com-Pac 19, a small open daysailer, and an Ericson 29. Since
I am now expecting child #5, I'm finding that the Com-Pac 19 is too
small to carry the entire family, and too big to daysail easily. (That's
why she's for sale.) When I sail with the entire company, I'll take the
E29 out, but that still leaves me looking for a little boat I can daysail
and take one or two kids on an expedition in.

I've owned a Com-Pac 16 before, and my general feeling is that
it's built like a rock, but it's still a little more work to launch than
I'd like, since it has a fixed keel. It also has pretty heavy-duty
hardware compared to the last Potter I've seen in person. In
general, while I'm a big admirer of Potters, I've been aware that
there are a large number of posts that say, basically: I was out
sailing my Potter and something fell off/came apart/tore out of
the deck/broke outright/etc. If you look in the archives of the
famous long distance voyages, you find a litany of things breaking:
rudders, stays, etc. I hear (read, actually) of rivets coming out of
the boom, goosenecks parting, etc. In many years of sailing boats,
I've never seen hardware even come close to coming off the
boom.

Another example: backing plates in the transom; my Com-Pac
16 had a ladder on the transom I could climb, and I'm 200+ lbs.
Never a problem. I read about people going to all kinds of
trouble to put a reasonable load on the transom of a P15. Why
aren't they built strong enough in the first place?

So, OK, now I'm thinking about buying a Potter for all the reasons
you know about, but I'm kind of wondering about what your
experiences are with the reliability of various years of Potters.
I know Larry Brown (where is he these days, anyway?) towed
his boat all over creation, and I know the Potter can do fine
things, but I'm just wondering how people are addressing the
current quality issues, and what your experiences are currently.

I suppose I could call IM, but I have real problems with the
credibility of their advertising, so I don't really know if I'd give
a lot of weight to their opinions. What I'd _like_ to hear is,
yes, the 1985-era Potters broke left and right, but IM has
upgraded the hardware and the boats are now very sturdy
and reliable. True?

I'd be interested in hearing any comments you might have.

Thanks!

Best wishes,

-greg

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